Murphy Buggs, Property Claims Manager at CNC Catastrophe and National Claims, shares insights on many different angles of work in insurance adjusting.

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Transcript:

00;00;01;01 - 00;00;28;03
Hal Needham
Hey Geo Trekers. Happy New Year and welcome to the year 2023. You helped make Geo Trek a very successful podcast in 2022. We wanted to thank you, all of our faithful listeners for helping the podcast be so successful. We close out the year ranked as the number two podcast. On the topic of natural disasters according to Feed Spot, So Feed Spot discovers, categorizes and ranks blogs, podcasts and influencers in several niche categories.

00;00;28;09 - 00;00;47;19
Hal Needham
And they ranked this now as the number two podcast in natural disasters. Thank you for listening and thank you also for sharing our content with your family, your friends, your colleagues. We feel like the podcast is really just getting started and we have a lot of amazing content planned for the year 2023. So just keep listening, keep sharing and let's enjoy the journey together.

00;00;48;10 - 00;01;15;15
Hal Needham
This week's guest is Murphy Buggs Property Claims Manager at CMC Catastrophe and National Claims. Murphy has more than nine years experience in the insurance claims industry, specializing in claims, adjusting claims, examination, catastrophe, supervision and estimate writing. He's also an active trainer and manager who oversees Dust Desk, adjusting field and quality control operations for multiple carriers in the property department at CMC.

00;01;15;24 - 00;01;46;21
Hal Needham
Murphy is known for his ability to connect desk and field adjusting in order to produce the highest quality claim possible for any policyholders loss. So in this intro I'm reading you about a about Murphy's background. As mentioned, CMT Catastrophe and National Claims. There is a parent company supporting the Go Check podcast, so I'm actually ACNC employee. I've been with them for more than four years and I've had an amazing experience with them as they encourage innovation and creativity, supporting endeavors like this podcast and a lot of other creative projects that we're working on.

00;01;47;03 - 00;02;16;17
Hal Needham
A little about CNC since 1988, they have specialized in insurance claims services providing allocation for daily and catastrophe, claims IT infrastructure and claims management systems. First notice of loss for TPA services, forensic engineering services and a host of other services covering property, flood and auto insurance. Claim assignments for insurance carriers. The National Flood Insurance Program, and several private flood insurance companies, both domestic and abroad.

00;02;16;17 - 00;02;38;19
Hal Needham
So they're involved with a lot of stuff and very innovative and very well connected, doing their work to get out to catastrophes and help people get their feet back on the ground. We've done so many different podcasts about different angles, about extreme weather and disasters. Here on the Go Track podcast for this episode, we wanted to really interview a claims expert at CMC to answer your questions you might have about the insurance claims process.

00;02;38;19 - 00;02;58;03
Hal Needham
So this podcast is going to be useful for policyholders, but also for professionals, including young and prospective insurance claims professionals. So if you've ever thought about a career in that field, listen closely. Or maybe that's a field you haven't heard of before, and this might just put something in your mind of some possibilities for some future professional work.

00;02;58;14 - 00;03;17;25
Hal Needham
Before we get into the conversation with Murphy a little bit about this podcast, Geo Trek investigates the impact of extreme weather and natural disasters on individuals and communities. Our goal is to help you improve your decision making, risk assessment and communication related to extreme events so you can take action to make yourself, your family and your community more resilient.

00;03;18;04 - 00;03;38;14
Hal Needham
A quick favor to ask you before we get into this episode. We'd really appreciate it if you take a moment to subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast platform, your subscription helps us mark progress, which enables us to make more professional partnerships moving forward and ensures many more episodes of the Geo Trek podcast in the future. And I'm telling you, subscribing to it, sharing with your family and friends and colleagues.

00;03;38;26 - 00;03;58;03
Hal Needham
This is why we're ranked number two right now as far as Natural Disaster podcast. So again, a huge thank you to our listeners. You can help us out by subscribing and sharing this content with others. So without further introduction, let's jump into this podcast. It's episode number 61. We're going to be interviewing Murphy Bugs Property Claims Manager at CMC Catastrophe and National Claims.

00;03;59;06 - 00;04;10;02
Hal Needham
Hey everyone, welcome to the Geo Trek podcast. We have a special guest today, Murphy Bugs Property Claims Manager with CNC Catastrophe and National Claims based in Mobile, Alabama. Murphy, welcome to the podcast.

00;04;10;02 - 00;04;11;16
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

00;04;11;22 - 00;04;25;10
Hal Needham
Murphy You know, we're recording this live in our Mobile, Alabama studio and we were talking about a lot of us that got into the catastrophe space, did not really intend to do that. We just kind of stumbled upon it. Could you share with us a little bit about your professional path? Like how did you get into this line of work?

00;04;25;11 - 00;04;41;07
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, you know, I played baseball in college. As soon as I graduated, I was kind of thinking, you know, what do I want to do? I thought I wanted to teach and coach and as a matter of fact, one of the upper management folks here, his mom and my grandmother have been friends for 100 years.

00;04;41;16 - 00;04;53;29
Murphy Buggs
So I'm one day in the grocery store. He said, Hey, what are you doing now? As a matter of fact, I just graduated college. And he said, Well, do you need a job? I said, Yeah, I mean, kinda. He said, All right, well, just come see me tomorrow. And I said, Well, what is it? He said, Well, have you ever heard of insurance adjusting?

00;04;53;29 - 00;05;00;23
Murphy Buggs
I said, No, I've never heard of it. He said, Well, then you'll be fine. Don't worry about it. We'll teach you from the ground up. So I guess it works out okay, but.

00;05;01;01 - 00;05;03;14
Hal Needham
That's pretty neat. So when was that? When was that conversation?

00;05;03;14 - 00;05;09;19
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, so that was late 2013. So I graduated in December and that was, you know, right around Christmas time. Really?

00;05;09;22 - 00;05;16;06
Hal Needham
Yeah. So okay, so that's around Christmas time then you got into it. What was it like, Like the learning curve and transition?

00;05;16;07 - 00;05;31;19
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I mean, it was a lot of brand new things. So when I first got in, I got in on the auto side and I knew a little bit about you know, the kind of the auto build and vehicles and things like that. But as far as the nuances of hail damage and flood damage, you know, you just don't know that, just common knowledge.

00;05;32;08 - 00;05;40;17
Murphy Buggs
So that was quite a big hurdle in the beginning. But really, once I started getting the hang of it and coming to study halls and things like that, it really kind of opened up my mind to what's out there.

00;05;40;18 - 00;05;46;12
Hal Needham
Murphy What was it like getting out there in the field for like your first big claims event? Was it a flood? Was it a hail storm?

00;05;46;12 - 00;06;03;21
Murphy Buggs
What was it? Yes, it was actually a big hail storm. I drove from here to Chicago, Illinois. I can remember going over the Dolly Parton Bridge and thinking, what am I doing? I don't know where I'm going. I think I know what I'm doing. So it was very overwhelming at first. But when I got out there, it was set up in one of the old fire stations.

00;06;03;28 - 00;06;08;22
Murphy Buggs
So it's basically like a drive in where cars came through for hail estimates and I had a blast. I loved.

00;06;08;22 - 00;06;14;26
Hal Needham
It. So they advertised, if you have hail damage, come to this place and there will be basically adjusters there to look at your vehicle.

00;06;14;27 - 00;06;15;21
Murphy Buggs
Exactly. Yup.

00;06;15;28 - 00;06;21;05
Hal Needham
So you're just kind of going through the in the hail damage. And it sounds like you picked up the learning curve pretty quick.

00;06;21;09 - 00;06;34;13
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. And like I said, we had a lot of good people. We had a lot of veterans on that, what they called drive in. So they were able to help and kind of walk you through your first couple. And then after that, it just I mean, when you're doing it every day seven days a week, 12 hours a day, it becomes second nature pretty quickly.

00;06;34;13 - 00;06;50;13
Hal Needham
So, Murphy, I wanted to kind of help walk our listeners through the process of you showing up at a property claim. There's a homeowner, obviously they're distressed, they've gone through all this. What does it look like? I mean, are you walking generally around the outside or are you also going inside? Are you going on the roof? I mean, what is this process?

00;06;50;13 - 00;06;50;24
Hal Needham
Look like?

00;06;50;26 - 00;07;07;13
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, and I think it's different. So as a flood adjuster, there are certain, you know, paths that you have to take, whether you go around the house in the crawl space basement. And obviously you're going to go on the inside and, you know, assess the flood damage, whereas a property adjuster, you know, same thing. You're going to get there, you're going to talk to the policyholder, let them know, hey, this is what I'm going to do.

00;07;07;13 - 00;07;26;19
Murphy Buggs
If you have any additional information, please give it to me, whether it's, you know, mitigation invoices, contractors, estimates, things like that. But really, you kind of create your own. And we kind of use it as a rule of thumb. You know, walk around the house, you know, take all of your elevation photos, then get on the roof, assess the roof damage, whether there is any or isn't any.

00;07;26;24 - 00;07;41;27
Murphy Buggs
You know, some carriers allow us to even use drones if it's a very steep roof or, you know, two or three stories and then make your way to the inside, you know, to see, you know, the exterior damage. Did it also cause interior damage and then address the contents? Do you know, people don't really think about that when they think property damage.

00;07;41;27 - 00;07;47;02
Murphy Buggs
They think of the actual structure. But there's also, you know, everybody's things that are inside that may have gotten damage.

00;07;47;02 - 00;07;53;19
Hal Needham
Have you seen cases where people take action before the storm to kind of help protect their contents, maybe try to get them up or do something like that?

00;07;53;20 - 00;08;11;12
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, absolutely. And we always ask, you know, because really the first contact is made by the desk adjuster. So we always relay that information to the policyholder to make sure you mitigate the damages as much as you can. You know, don't throw anything away, you know, because it could affect coverage. You know, obviously, we want to pay for everything that we can, so we want to be able to address it.

00;08;11;12 - 00;08;19;14
Murphy Buggs
Maybe it's damaged flooring that they had to pull up because it was wet, you know, or, you know, towels that slid off on a roof. You know, make sure you keep a couple of those.

00;08;19;21 - 00;08;24;29
Hal Needham
MURPHY Is it pretty straightforward to see how high, say, like flooding got the worry sometimes? Is it hard to tell?

00;08;25;05 - 00;08;47;27
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I think it's very easy to tell on the outside. So a lot of times with the flood line, you know, you've got some kind of debris line as well, whether it's cut grass or leads, you know, any kind of, you know, outside, you know, tree debris and things like that. Now, on the inside, you know, that line can be a lot different, you know, And I think that's eye opening the first time you see it, the outside flood line, maybe ten inches where the inside maybe two inches, you know, so it can throw you off at first.

00;08;47;27 - 00;08;50;28
Murphy Buggs
But once you see a couple of them like that, you kind of know what to look for.

00;08;50;28 - 00;09;09;06
Hal Needham
So I say So again, that line outside the house may be different than inside, especially if it's pretty airtight. There's maybe a lot of water was not coming in the door, this thing. Absolutely. Mr. Murphy, There you are. All these people are bringing their hail damaged cars. You learn the ropes pretty quickly. What happened after that? I mean, how did your profession what was next professionally for you?

00;09;09;12 - 00;09;28;26
Murphy Buggs
Yes, I really after doing a couple of those drive ins, I came back home. There was another opportunity in our mobile office doing some things on the property side. Again, brand new. You know, I haven't done property before but got involved with the folks in the office. I just kind of learned as you went, worked on some smaller storms first, you know, hail and wind storms and things like that and really starting to catch on.

00;09;28;26 - 00;09;30;17
Murphy Buggs
I really kind of fell in love with the property side.

00;09;30;17 - 00;09;33;15
Hal Needham
Of, oh, that's really interesting. What do you like the most about working in property?

00;09;33;20 - 00;09;47;07
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I mean, I like the property side of it because I guess I'm more used to looking at roofs and interior damages and things like that. So I feel like I have a better knowledge base than I would maybe on the flood side, estimating from the ground up. To me it's easier estimating from the roof down.

00;09;47;16 - 00;10;00;23
Hal Needham
So yeah. Murphy Can you walk us through to a lot of our guest may have heard of insurance adjusting, but not really know how it works. So they're like, deal adjusters and desk adjusters. Can you explain the difference? Like, how does all how do all these pieces fit together?

00;10;01;00 - 00;10;16;01
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. So it is really one, you know, there are two parts of the claim and they do work together, but at the same time they are totally different. So the field adjuster, you know, they're actually going to go out to the house, inspect the claim, take the photos right this minute, whereas the desk adjuster is really kind of the X, Y, Z portion of the claim.

00;10;16;09 - 00;10;28;28
Murphy Buggs
They handle the inside stuff, which is, you know, reviewing that claim, making sure the you know, the endorsements and exclusions have been applied correctly, making sure the estimate is in tip top shape, issuing any payments, writing a coverage letter, so on and so forth.

00;10;29;13 - 00;10;41;03
Hal Needham
So what's it like post-disaster, you know, a hurricane comes through west coast of Florida or Louisiana. A field adjusters are getting out there. I mean, what does that look like for them getting out in the field to do some adjustment?

00;10;41;10 - 00;10;58;27
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, So it is it's challenging for a field adjuster because, I mean, you think you're going to an area to work claims, No problem. But it's a disaster area. I mean, you know, in all reality it is so I mean, you know, power is is few and far between. Cell towers are down. You know, you have a lot of adjusters go into the area from all over the country.

00;10;58;27 - 00;11;05;16
Murphy Buggs
So hotels are hard to come by. So it can be challenging when you first get to really ground zero out there as a field adjuster.

00;11;05;20 - 00;11;23;26
Hal Needham
Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's almost like society is not working as you'd expect, right? May not have electricity or other services like that. So it's obviously challenging. Have you faced issues with just communicating with people or using that smart phone map? I mean, how do you how have you learned to kind of navigate around these catastrophe areas?

00;11;23;26 - 00;11;42;11
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, it can be really hard to get in touch with policyholders, especially when you get out there. You know, you're ready to hit the ground running and get working. The carriers expecting you to start turning files in, but you're having a hard time getting in touch with people. And if it's a really bad hit area, maybe there was a lot of evacuations and they're not home, you know, so they can't help you inspect and go inside their house and things like that.

00;11;42;21 - 00;11;45;14
Murphy Buggs
So it can be you know, it can be a challenge from the get go.

00;11;45;27 - 00;11;52;01
Hal Needham
And so when you go into a catastrophe zone, are you typically there for days, weeks? I mean, how long are you there?

00;11;52;08 - 00;12;08;13
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. So we like to stage them out. We like to get them there, you know, before we start getting claims. You know, typically at one certain time we know we're going to get claims. We just don't know how many. So we'll send a core group of field adjusters down to the area, you know, so they can get set up, they can get Airbnb hotel, whatever the case may be.

00;12;08;13 - 00;12;13;05
Murphy Buggs
And then once we start getting them claims, then they're able to start calling and inspecting and things like that.

00;12;13;22 - 00;12;35;03
Hal Needham
When I've been in disaster zones, I've often seen there's almost like this commuting like Manhattan effect of this massive amount of people trying to get to the disaster zone in the morning doing their work, whether they're a roofer, a contractor, emergency management, insurance adjuster, and then in the evening kind of going out. Is that pretty typical? Is that the only lodging you can find is not in the disaster zone?

00;12;35;08 - 00;12;47;01
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I think that is very typical. You know, we have some field adjusters that have to stay our 2 hours away from the actual disaster zone just so they can get Internet signal wi fi cell signal, a hotel to stay in. So, yeah.

00;12;47;05 - 00;12;56;18
Hal Needham
That's a good point. Not only do you have to get on the ground at the site to do the adjusting, but then you have to get back to write it up and you need internet or wi fi right to communicate and send these claims in?

00;12;56;18 - 00;13;07;16
Murphy Buggs
Absolutely. I mean, we have a lot of our field suggestions that use those modify spots that you can buy like at bus by. Just so you know, in areas like that where they don't have Wi-Fi or Internet signal available, they can use that.

00;13;08;28 - 00;13;21;03
Hal Needham
You know, what do you do? So I've been in disaster zones as well where maybe one carrier is down, like maybe Verizon's down. But AT&T is working. If you get a team of people, usually someone has connectivity, hopefully.

00;13;21;06 - 00;13;48;11
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, hopefully they do. A lot of our field adjusters go down in groups and, you know, it always ends up that they have different cell phone carriers. One of them doesn't work. Like you said, maybe Verizon, but, you know, Sprint is working or AT&T or whatever the case may be. We have field adjusters a lot of times, too, that will go to, you know, local grocery stores or whatever like that and get one of those track phones, you know, basically like a cell phone that they can just activate for that storm because that will give them signal and then they just discontinue it when the storm's over.

00;13;48;11 - 00;13;52;04
Hal Needham
So use that temporarily just to have some kind of signal in some way to communicate.

00;13;52;04 - 00;13;52;21
Murphy Buggs
Absolutely.

00;13;53;02 - 00;14;08;05
Hal Needham
Very. How long does it take someone to really get trained? You know, the are young professionals listening to this. They might say, well, this is really interesting. I want to learn more about this. How could people kind of start on this route to try adjusting and then how would they get trained? How long does it take to get trained?

00;14;08;14 - 00;14;23;28
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I think it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to be a field adjuster, I think you have to have a little bit of a maybe a construction background. And if not, I didn't when I first started. But there's always classes that are offered. YouTube is, you know, millennials, the best way to learn things, you know, so you can go on that.

00;14;23;28 - 00;14;44;01
Murphy Buggs
There's YouTube for everything. You know how the construction of a house is done, what are the components of a roof, how to use exactamente, you know, our estimating software, things like that. And then C and C also posts, you know, a lot of those training videos and we have training classes throughout the year that may be two, three, five day classes where you can do property adjusting or auto adjusting, flood adjuster and things like that.

00;14;44;07 - 00;14;46;13
Hal Needham
Are there any differences from one state to another?

00;14;46;26 - 00;15;07;14
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, there are. So there are certain state statutes that you have to follow depending on which state you're in. Florida is a little tricky because there's a whole lot of legislature that goes into it. I mean, just for an example in Florida, you know, if your roof is built before March 1st, 2009, it's 25% damage to replace a roof, where if it's after that date, it has to be 50% damage to replace a roof.

00;15;07;29 - 00;15;12;14
Murphy Buggs
Texas, is it even different than that? The Northeast is a little bit different. So, yeah, it does depend on the state.

00;15;12;22 - 00;15;16;01
Hal Needham
Wow. So that's interesting. They have different policies and regulations depending where you're at.

00;15;16;10 - 00;15;24;16
Murphy Buggs
Absolutely. It's not like flood, where it's a government program where all the you know, all the policies are the same. You know, in homeowners it's different by carrier.

00;15;24;16 - 00;15;36;04
Hal Needham
So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So when there is a huge catastrophe event, are people often coming to the office here in Mobile and then deploying or are they often just meeting up close to the disaster site?

00;15;36;09 - 00;15;56;03
Murphy Buggs
So a lot of times what we have is almost like a HQ, you know, close to the disaster zone, maybe a couple of hours away where we send one of our staff folks, whether it be a field manager and we kind of have a roundtable with all of our field adjusters, whether it's 50 or 100 of them. And we meet, we go over hot topics, what they're going to see, coverage bulletins that maybe have been provided to us by the carrier.

00;15;56;03 - 00;16;03;22
Murphy Buggs
But a lot of times they don't come to the office. We call them, they're ready to go and they immediately start, you know, making their journey down to wherever they're going.

00;16;03;22 - 00;16;12;07
Hal Needham
Sure. Is there some type? We talked about different regulations per state. Is there like a certification? Do you need to be like certified in these different states or can anyone do adjusting anywhere?

00;16;12;07 - 00;16;32;05
Murphy Buggs
You're not necessarily certified now. You do have to have a home state license, and this is specific for property. So if you live in Alabama like I do, I have an Alabama state license which reciprocates with other state. So you have to have that state's specific license to actually work claims there. Now, some states are non licensing. You know, a couple of them are Illinois, Missouri.

00;16;32;13 - 00;16;41;15
Murphy Buggs
You know, you don't have to have a license. You just have to have a home state license. But in order to work in Florida or Texas or North Carolina, you have to have that specific license to work them.

00;16;42;11 - 00;17;01;03
Hal Needham
I got you. That makes sense. So it seems like it depends somewhat where you are. You need to have your home state license and then depending where you are, for sure, there's at least different guidelines and and things like that. I want to ask you so let's say once you're fully trained and you really have completed your learning curve, you know what you're doing, how many houses can you do?

00;17;01;03 - 00;17;02;24
Hal Needham
Can you adjust? Basically in a day?

00;17;03;08 - 00;17;19;01
Murphy Buggs
I think some of our more experienced field adjusters can do 4 to 5 a day just because they're very seasoned. They kind of have a really good thick sheet of what they want to do when they get there. You know, they have their own process. They've built out over years of experience, whereas a new person may be able to do, you know, 2 to 3 a day.

00;17;19;01 - 00;17;34;01
Murphy Buggs
You know, I think it's kind of a rule of thumb. If you spend 2 hours on an inspection, you've done a really thorough inspection, you know, less than that. You almost start to question, did I miss something that I forget something? So like I said, I think it does depend on really your expertise and your knowledge.

00;17;34;14 - 00;17;44;17
Hal Needham
What do you do if you want to adjust a house? And the homeowner says, I'm still 200 miles away, I evacuated. Is there a way that you can do it from the outside? You have to go in every house.

00;17;44;24 - 00;18;02;14
Murphy Buggs
Yes. So a lot of carriers are very specific about that. They want you to do a full inspection. They don't want it to be done in piecemeal where I can do the outside when they're not here. And I'll come back in a couple of weeks and do the inside. You know, certain carriers have guidelines to where the whole file has to be completed by a certain date, and a lot of it's triggered off the date of inspection.

00;18;02;14 - 00;18;04;27
Murphy Buggs
So they want it to be all inspected at one time.

00;18;05;24 - 00;18;21;22
Hal Needham
So I hear people in disaster zone say, man, I really want to get back in. The authorities aren't letting me, but I want to get back in and treat my house before mold sets in and this type of black mold, other things can quickly develop. And on the back end of a flood event, how does that play out?

00;18;21;22 - 00;18;38;21
Hal Needham
So because we know, like the flood event may happen and the flood may come in and go out on day one and maybe by day three or four, mold may set in. And so the adjuster may come in before or after the mold shows up. How does that all play out? Because things are so dynamic in these houses that are damaged?

00;18;38;26 - 00;18;39;04
Hal Needham
Yeah, I.

00;18;39;04 - 00;18;54;16
Murphy Buggs
Think carriers are pretty lenient, is not the right word, but I think they're very understanding when it comes to things like that. You know, if you had to evacuate and you had to get out of the area, there are certain things that are going to be beyond your control, you know, certain duties after a loss or you have to mitigate, but you can't mitigate if you know, the government is sure.

00;18;54;17 - 00;19;00;16
Hal Needham
You can't get back home, Right? Yeah, that's really interesting. Have you seen a lot of mold set in within days of a flood?

00;19;00;19 - 00;19;08;24
Murphy Buggs
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. We I mean, we see it every day, you know, when we do, you know, the catastrophe storm related claims that it's going to happen, whether we like it or not.

00;19;08;25 - 00;19;12;24
Hal Needham
Does that play into the claim like once, once there's mold there?

00;19;12;28 - 00;19;29;13
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of these policies, especially on the property side, they have certain endorsements that allow you for fungi, wet, dry rot up to a certain dollar amount. So that's all, you know, encompassed in the policy. And it's there's certain limits that you can pay up to, but we can absolutely address it.

00;19;29;29 - 00;19;49;12
Hal Needham
MURPHY I've talked to, unfortunately, way too many homeowners that feel like they were blindsided or surprised. Right? The flood happens. They've been paying their premium. They have an idea in their head what's covered. And then after the storm, they find out what they thought was covered isn't covered. What advice do you have for homeowners related to that topic?

00;19;49;21 - 00;19;50;00
Hal Needham
Yeah.

00;19;50;29 - 00;20;08;29
Murphy Buggs
The best way to say it is just to know your policy and read through your policy, know what it's covered, know what is covered and what's not. Your agent A lot of times can help with that as well. It's some of those things that you just it's not common knowledge you don't know and run into policyholders that think certain things that are covered that aren't.

00;20;08;29 - 00;20;11;11
Murphy Buggs
And that can be a very difficult conversation to have with a policy.

00;20;11;11 - 00;20;19;20
Hal Needham
Sure. So a good agent is going to walk you through and say, do you realize with this your your maybe building is covered by your contents or something like that? Yeah.

00;20;20;02 - 00;20;41;09
Murphy Buggs
You know, and we depend on our field and our desk adjusters a lot, too, to help explain that, because even though they may have had that conversation with the agent daily life, you forget those kind of. Sure, you know, nuance detail. So it's really our job as the claims adjuster to also, you know, echo that, you know, that sentiment and saying, hey, you know, just letting you know upfront, this is unfortunately not going to be covered, but we can do this also.

00;20;41;13 - 00;20;45;03
Hal Needham
I see. So to give them the option, like that's something you can add moving forward.

00;20;45;03 - 00;20;55;07
Murphy Buggs
Absolutely. Yeah. And we always tell them, you know, hey, there are certain endorsements that you can get added. Now, they may cost more on your premium, but they will help you get more coverage on the specific policy. Yeah.

00;20;55;25 - 00;21;17;17
Hal Needham
Murphy I'm always amazed to hear of field adjusters out there for, you know, 25 days and often they're not taking weekends, they're pulling 12 hour days out and they're in the hot sun going into houses that may smell bad, may have mold. There's no air conditioning. How do you handle that physically? I mean, that's just a tremendous tool and strain on the body.

00;21;17;17 - 00;21;19;14
Hal Needham
And then again, you're going maybe seven days a week.

00;21;19;23 - 00;21;37;28
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's why I tip my hat every day to field adjusters. You know, they have a very difficult job. The inside folks just don't understand. You know, we get to come sit in an office at a cubicle and air conditioning, whereas the field adjusters, they're out there really doing the heavy lifting. Like you said, they're out there in the heat, They're out there and, you know, mold infested houses and things like that.

00;21;37;28 - 00;21;53;19
Murphy Buggs
They have the most difficult job. And I think it is a challenge in the beginning to get over it, especially working the 12 hour days, but I think is a feeling that you also have to understand it's going to be very difficult, you know, very time intensive in the very beginning, but eventually, you know, it will slow down.

00;21;54;22 - 00;22;01;15
Hal Needham
You mean at the beginning of any event? I you kind of get that first couple of weeks where there's way more claims than you can maybe handle, right?

00;22;01;16 - 00;22;02;01
Murphy Buggs
Absolutely.

00;22;02;12 - 00;22;08;27
Hal Needham
Yeah. That's really interesting. And that makes sense. So in general, when you've seen a big event, how long does the adjusting last for?

00;22;09;09 - 00;22;26;04
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I mean, you know, just the one that we're doing right now with Ian and Nicole that happened back to back. We had some field adjusters that were doing both storms and they went down there beginning of October. And some of them are still there, you know, because we get late reported claims and things like that. And we need those field adjusters to kind of hang around.

00;22;26;04 - 00;22;35;01
Murphy Buggs
So those claims that straggle in, maybe for people that were, you know, snowbirds and they don't live in Florida just now coming down for Christmas holidays or things like that. So.

00;22;35;01 - 00;22;47;13
Hal Needham
Murphy, what are the challenges for desk adjusters? I mean, so you're communicating with all these people out in the field. Is it hard to kind of keep all that straight? I mean, again, they're also seeing this influx of tremendous amount of claims in a short amount of time.

00;22;47;20 - 00;23;09;28
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, absolutely. So it's really juggling, you know, all the different parties. You know, you always want to stay in touch with the policyholder. That's most important from the customer service side. But you also have to be available for the field adjuster, too. And then the carriers also giving you messaging throughout the storm. So you're really trying to make sure everybody's on the same page and we try to have meetings and things like that with our field staff and desk to make sure they're on the same page.

00;23;09;28 - 00;23;18;00
Murphy Buggs
The best thing we can do really is communicate that to the policyholders so they're also in tune with what's going on and what's changed in the last day or last week.

00;23;18;15 - 00;23;34;09
Hal Needham
MURPHY Insurance is a huge safety net. I mean, you're really getting out there helping put people's lives together after one of the worst things that's ever happened to them. Can you think of one or two amazing success stories where people were truly grateful? Like, thank you for helping this process go through it so quickly?

00;23;34;11 - 00;23;48;17
Murphy Buggs
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we got a lot of great folks out there that you see us adjusting and adjusting like, you know, and for these policyholders, I always tell our staff, hey, it may be that they're you know, they lost ten shingles on their roof, but this is a big deal to them, right? It's their house. Think about it.

00;23;48;17 - 00;24;05;09
Murphy Buggs
If it was your house, you'd want to treat them with the same type of, you know, sympathy that, you know, they want to get throughout, you know, throughout their claims process. So, yeah, I mean, we have success stories throughout every storm. We have great field adjusters, great desk staff that really help get those insureds back to, you know, pre loss conditions.

00;24;05;09 - 00;24;18;29
Murphy Buggs
And they also show a lot of things. You always have some, too, that are, you know, maybe a little bit agitated by the end of the process. But we just try to coach them through that, let them know, hey, you know, we just want to make sure we do a thorough job. We address everything that's at your property.

00;24;19;15 - 00;24;23;25
Murphy Buggs
And I think most insureds are very understanding. You know, once we you know, once we give them that talk pass.

00;24;24;09 - 00;24;33;13
Hal Needham
When a disaster hits a community, if someone's impacted and they have to submit a claim, what are the different ways they reach out? I mean, are they doing this mostly over the phone? Is there an app? How do they do it?

00;24;33;23 - 00;24;49;12
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I think it a lot of times depends on the carrier. So there are different ways for an insurer to report a claim that a lot of carriers have a web portal where they can do it. Some of them just have a regular 24 seven customer service line, you know, a claims hotline where they can call in. So there's a variety of ways that they can call on that client.

00;24;49;13 - 00;25;13;07
Hal Needham
Sure. Incidentally, for our listeners, something I learned from Hurricane Ian. I was on the ground for about a week. Jeremiah and I were down there. Jeremiah Long He does a lot of our media work and social media work, a lot of videography. We were down there and we we noticed that cell phone service was really compromised and we talked to a resident who said, I guess the cell phone towers were strained and they couldn't really get calls out that well.

00;25;13;14 - 00;25;26;28
Hal Needham
But they realized if they placed in a call to submit their claim at 3 a.m., not that many people were up. So actually in the middle of the night they were doing some of this kind of submitting their claims information because the they got better cell reception.

00;25;26;28 - 00;25;33;07
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, we've experienced that too, where you get a huge influx of claims overnight. But during the day it seems like it's very slow.

00;25;33;15 - 00;25;35;09
Hal Needham
And possibly they can't get the call out.

00;25;35;09 - 00;25;35;24
Murphy Buggs
Exactly.

00;25;36;04 - 00;25;47;19
Hal Needham
So just just something to think about. If you're listening to this, if you ever go through a disaster and if you have trouble having connectivity on the on the cell phone, maybe try submitting your claim in the middle of the night. I know a lot of adjusters are working around the clock.

00;25;47;19 - 00;25;48;08
Murphy Buggs
Absolutely.

00;25;48;19 - 00;26;11;16
Hal Needham
Yeah. Really interesting. So I have to ask this question. You know, it seems like a catastrophe hits the adjusters are they're they're doing so much work in a short amount of time. And then what? I mean, a few months later, now that the event is over, you've hopefully done a lot of work. You helped a lot of people out and also been able to, you know, make a decent amount of money in a short amount of time, but then there are no more catastrophes.

00;26;12;00 - 00;26;19;26
Hal Needham
Can you explain kind of that that ebb and flow of the rush of all this work and then maybe a long period without work for a claims adjuster?

00;26;20;02 - 00;26;42;20
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. So I think for a claims adjuster to you have to find, you know, your needs, you know, what's best for you. Do you want to be a CAD adjuster to where you're super busy for two or three months out of the year and then that lasts you Do you want to do that with daily work also? You know, and work daily, you know, whether it's quarterly claims or, you know, just daily hail claims or wind claims based on where you live, I think to each their own really.

00;26;42;20 - 00;26;53;05
Murphy Buggs
And we have some that do both. And that's why I think you see a lot of you know, a lot of the field adjusters that strictly do care. They want as many claims as you can give them because it's got to last them throughout the rest of the year.

00;26;53;05 - 00;27;03;20
Hal Needham
I see they might be doing a year's worth of work and maybe two or three months or something like that. Exactly. Have you come across people that have other occupations and then just pick up as a part time job?

00;27;03;23 - 00;27;23;25
Murphy Buggs
Sure. We have seen that, especially field Adjusters Now desk gets a little bit more difficult, but Field adjusters. Yeah, absolutely. You know, they save up their PTO and then when that hurricanes in the Gulf, they go ahead and schedule it out. They can go to the disaster zone for, you know, two weeks or three weeks, work those claims and then come back and, you know, write them and then go back to their, you know, their regular job.

00;27;23;27 - 00;27;43;23
Hal Needham
That's interesting. So they might actually use paid time off to say, I'm going to go to this disaster zone for two weeks, do a ton of claims, and then do that really as a part time income. Absolutely. That's really interesting. So obviously, hurricanes have a big impact. Hail and in the plains. How did these different disasters play out as far as the number of claims?

00;27;44;00 - 00;27;54;25
Hal Needham
I know, like hurricanes are big in the news, but then I've had some people say, you know, there are a lot of little hailstorms that don't make the national news, but they're happening almost every day in the spring and summer.

00;27;54;27 - 00;28;14;19
Murphy Buggs
Sure, exactly. I mean, just in Texas, you know, the hail storms are I mean, they're it's multiple of them, you know, and it can be multiple hailstorms in a month to hurricanes, obviously get us more claims just because there's a wider spread area that's been affected. But like you said, hailstorms, you know, last year with the Texas freeze that happened, that was a big event for us.

00;28;14;19 - 00;28;27;08
Murphy Buggs
And most people, you know, may not think that. They may think, oh, you know, I'm thinking more tornado hurricane would cause you to have more claims. But like even that freeze storm that caused, you know, a good bit of work for us, you know or not cause but you know, created.

00;28;27;08 - 00;28;27;12
Hal Needham
A good.

00;28;27;18 - 00;28;28;07
Murphy Buggs
Work for us.

00;28;28;08 - 00;28;39;05
Hal Needham
Well, no, I live in southeast Texas and so many people lost power, had freezing temperatures in their home, broken pipes, and suddenly it's kind of in a way, a flood event, even though it was a freeze event.

00;28;39;05 - 00;28;39;18
Murphy Buggs
Yes.

00;28;40;01 - 00;28;54;22
Hal Needham
And that brings us into winter weather. I mean, we're coming into wintertime now. There's an arctic blast spreading across the U.S. What kind of claims might we see in the winter time? Just we talk a little bit about the Texas freeze, but just in a sense in general across the states, what what might we see in a given winter?

00;28;54;27 - 00;29;10;22
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, I think you may see some like we talked about freeze claims as well. Even with snowstorms, you know, there's a lot of wind that's a lot of times comes with through that even, you know, you know collapsing of roofs, you know, from weight of snow and things like that. And when that snow starts to melt, you know, and then it creates water.

00;29;11;07 - 00;29;16;02
Murphy Buggs
So that also can be, you know, that I guess to cause even more claims really.

00;29;16;02 - 00;29;20;25
Hal Needham
Have you ever come across ice dams like where the water starts to melt and refreezes and you get to the roof?

00;29;20;26 - 00;29;22;06
Murphy Buggs
Yes, absolutely. We have. Yeah.

00;29;22;18 - 00;29;37;08
Hal Needham
You know, it's interesting. My parents live on top of a hill in Pennsylvania. I thought they would never have any kind of water damage, flood damage. They're like if they flood everyone in the state of Pennsylvania side. And I talk to my my folks a couple of years ago and said, what are you doing? And they said, we're mopping up floodwater.

00;29;37;16 - 00;29;55;16
Hal Needham
How in the world is that happening here? It was an ice dam. So basically the snow started melting on the roof. It froze near the edge and it backed up water under their shingles. And it's so so are there other things like this that you can think of that homeowners may not think of? It's not just your your typical kind of hazard.

00;29;55;16 - 00;30;08;07
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. I mean, I think that's a really good example. Honestly, I can't think of one off the top of my head, but the ice damming is a I mean, that is a kind of a a secondary loss that you don't really think of, but it can happen. Yeah, I think that's.

00;30;08;07 - 00;30;25;24
Hal Needham
Probably yeah, that's probably the I came across that one. I thought wow that's, that's kind of weird. I never would have expected that, but, but there it happened anyway. As far as work that our adjusters do in the field are the main states they spend time with, like, say, Texas, Oklahoma with a severe weather, and then maybe along the Gulf Coast for hurricanes.

00;30;25;24 - 00;30;27;06
Hal Needham
Or are there other places they go as well?

00;30;27;10 - 00;30;45;08
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, no, I think that's probably in your big ones. Like I said, you're you're central states, like you're Texas, Oklahoma, places like that, even Colorado, where you know, you're going to get hailstorms really throughout the year almost. And then really late in the year, as I say, late in the year more, you know, late summer, fall, winter, you know, your hurricane states or southeast or coastal states.

00;30;45;08 - 00;31;01;12
Murphy Buggs
I think that's where most of the work is throughout the year. But there's always daily losses. You know, there's always pipe leak planes, you know, in Connecticut that, you know, happened on April 1st, you know, so it's not all the time, you know, directly related to what time of year, because there's always those daily losses that are going to happen to Murphy.

00;31;01;12 - 00;31;14;14
Hal Needham
Part of your story is that you did not really have exposure to working in the insurance industry and then suddenly you just kind of stumbled upon this based on a conversation and you've run with it. Has this changed how you look at insurance? Maybe for your own personal property?

00;31;14;22 - 00;31;38;06
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, no, absolutely. Like I said, it's really opened my eyes. When I started doing it, you know, I noticed I would drive down the neighborhood and I'd start looking at roofs left and right. You know, I'd start looking at cars and say, well, that one had hail damage or wonder when that happened. So, yeah, it really does open your eyes like anything else when you do things, you know, each day and you kind of get used to looking at it, you start noticing more things or you go by and you say how that crawl space, you know, I don't really know if that set up the right way.

00;31;38;06 - 00;31;41;27
Murphy Buggs
That's going to let a lot of water in. If it starts pounding in the yard, you know, things like that.

00;31;42;00 - 00;31;49;22
Hal Needham
Feel like if friends or family talk to you like, well, I have to insure my house. What are some things that you would tell someone like to look out for in a policy?

00;31;49;27 - 00;32;06;18
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. So I would absolutely tell them, you know, hey, really look into that policy. Make sure it covers what you want it to cover. There's always additional endorsements that you can put on. And yes, it will cost extra on premiums, but it will help you in the long run. You know, insurance is one of those things. You pay for it and hope you never have to use it.

00;32;06;28 - 00;32;10;29
Murphy Buggs
But in the event you do have to use it, you hope that it's going to cover as much as it possibly can. So.

00;32;10;29 - 00;32;17;24
Hal Needham
Well, that's right. And if people really cut corners like that and they don't have the coverage, it can really set them back if they get hit in a storm.

00;32;17;24 - 00;32;34;16
Murphy Buggs
Exactly. I mean, the same thing when it comes to a hurricane deductible. You know, hurricane deductibles are done by a certain percentage of the, you know, the coverage of your dwelling. Well, you know, you may think, well, you know, I'm going to pay a little bit less premiums in your hurricane deductibles, $12,000. You know that that really comes into play whenever you do have a hurricane event.

00;32;35;09 - 00;32;53;12
Murphy Buggs
You know, I've talked to policyholders, too, and they they're astounded by, you know, how large their hurricane deductible is. And you say, well, you know, it's based off a percentage. And that's, you know, that all ties into your premiums and it really opens their eyes to that maybe they weren't aware of in the beginning. But when that policy comes up for renewal, they're going to make that change pretty quickly.

00;32;53;12 - 00;32;59;03
Hal Needham
So oftentimes, if you're paying a higher premium every month or every year, that could bring down that hurricane deductible.

00;32;59;03 - 00;32;59;25
Murphy Buggs
Absolutely.

00;33;00;06 - 00;33;07;28
Hal Needham
Yeah. And, you know, paying out that ten or $12,000 on a lump sum just because there's hurricane damage on your roof, that can really set people back.

00;33;07;29 - 00;33;24;15
Murphy Buggs
Exactly. I mean, you have a hurricane damage claim where it's a fairly large roof and it's, you know, 15, $16,000. If they have a $10,000 hurricane deductible, well, that's what's got to come out of pocket for them. You know, the carrier will pay for the other five, you know, but you're really paying for two thirds of it. And that can be difficult for a policyholder.

00;33;24;15 - 00;33;30;01
Murphy Buggs
Whereas if you pay more on your premiums and you have a three or $4,000 deductible, it makes it a little bit more manageable.

00;33;30;01 - 00;33;41;14
Hal Needham
Sure. When that event actually happens, if it does, all of a sudden you can navigate that a lot easier. So the carriers put that there. I'm imagining, because hurricanes are such extensive events. Right. They can take on that much.

00;33;41;14 - 00;33;42;00
Murphy Buggs
Exactly.

00;33;42;02 - 00;33;43;03
Hal Needham
Payout at one time. Yeah.

00;33;43;03 - 00;33;50;28
Murphy Buggs
That must exposure for them I think could be really detrimental to their you know, their indemnity payments that they're able to pay out on each claim. Yeah.

00;33;50;28 - 00;34;11;13
Hal Needham
Murphy I wanted to ask you some questions about some more complex cases. You know, what we've talked about before. It's some more of the standard stuff, but there's a lot of complex stuff that can happen in adjustment. An example, you get a homeowner that evacuates for a hurricane, they come back, they find terrible damage in their home. So the first thing they see is there is partially a hole in the roof, right?

00;34;11;13 - 00;34;30;05
Hal Needham
So they call up their homeowner homeowner's insurance and say, hey, I have roof damage. But homeowner said you're actually in an area that had storm surge flooding. Everyone flooded with flood water above the ground. So this isn't a homeowner's case. It's a flood insurance case. So then that homeowner contacts their flood insurance. And flood insurance says, wait you have roof damage.

00;34;30;05 - 00;34;50;23
Hal Needham
This isn't a flood insurance case. It's a homeowner's case. So sometimes the two carriers will fight against each other or contest each other. Where does this put the field adjuster? I mean, they're they're in this complex situation where you have two companies maybe disagreeing. How can the field adjuster, you know, navigate this situation and maybe even help the homeowners just resolve and work through this?

00;34;51;11 - 00;35;10;03
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. So I think in a really lucky scenario, the insured has two separate policies, right, for flood and property insurance. We have found some cases where they're missing one or the other. Most likely the flood carrier is missing and they only have property damages. And that can be a little tricky to navigate, especially as a as a property adjuster.

00;35;10;03 - 00;35;31;06
Murphy Buggs
You go out there and you can't necessarily estimate for flood damages because they're not covered under their homeowner's policy. But in a in a best case scenario, they have a carrier for both. And a lot of times what will happen is the flood adjuster and the homeowner's adjuster will both go out to the house, maybe not now. So at the same time, but they'll both go out there and do their own independent inspections.

00;35;31;13 - 00;35;49;09
Murphy Buggs
So it won't necessarily be one person that does a joint inspection, that does both of them at the same time. But each adjuster will do their best to kind of delineate which is which, you know, what's flood related and what's wind related. So they try to do that when they go out to the house. So they can really kind of separate the damages.

00;35;49;09 - 00;35;55;06
Murphy Buggs
And sometimes we even have to get an engineer involved. You know, if it's a really tricky scenario, like a waterfront property or something like that.

00;35;55;06 - 00;35;59;17
Hal Needham
Kind of doing some of the forensic work to piece together what most likely happened, I'm imagining.

00;35;59;22 - 00;36;01;18
Murphy Buggs
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

00;36;02;02 - 00;36;13;02
Hal Needham
Yeah. That's interesting. And the value, then again, if they have wind and flood, then basically it's going to be paid out. It's just a matter of determining who pays what. Right. So that's ideal.

00;36;13;13 - 00;36;15;08
Murphy Buggs
That's exactly right. Yeah, Exactly right.

00;36;15;18 - 00;36;35;20
Hal Needham
And I think, you know, this is a good you know, a good point, too, for our our field adjusters out there just to really document the best you can. Right. Take a lot of photos, document everything you possibly can, because in some of these more complex cases, I think I would imagine some of those photos and testimony might even be used in court in the more complex cases.

00;36;35;20 - 00;36;36;11
Hal Needham
Right?

00;36;36;11 - 00;36;57;10
Murphy Buggs
Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, and field adjusters kind of if they don't already know, we always, you know, caution them going into working these claims, especially in a catastrophe, you know, that everything is discoverable. So all of your photos, all of your narrative report, so everything you say, take a photo of take a video of all of it can be discoverable, you know, in a court of law, like, as you said, it ends up going to litigation.

00;36;57;10 - 00;37;09;22
Murphy Buggs
You know, the adjuster could be called in to give a deposition, you know, to be able to give their, you know, kind of verbal statement on what they inspected, what they believe is and is not related to the cause of loss that they're actually inspecting for.

00;37;10;19 - 00;37;28;13
Hal Needham
That makes sense. And that's a really good piece of advice as well. People, especially younger adjusters, may not understand about things being discoverable that pretty much any any photos, any videos, anything that you've written about this. Right. It could be used by one or both sides to help support their position.

00;37;28;26 - 00;37;48;19
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, absolutely. Even their notes in the file, you know, even in documentation that they put in the actual notes, whether it's a claims management system or if it's in like exact analysis, you know, systems like that, maybe not even necessarily just their documents, but really their phone calls, their emails or text messages. I mean, really anything is fair game in that scenario.

00;37;48;22 - 00;38;04;10
Hal Needham
Well, that proves the importance of the work of the field adjusters that they're out there on the ground there, really taking evidence. And what they do, it's it's not only helping that homeowner get their feedback on the ground, but in some of these cases helping the the carriers kind of resolve what happened because they were the expert on the scene.

00;38;04;10 - 00;38;05;04
Hal Needham
Right?

00;38;05;04 - 00;38;06;12
Murphy Buggs
Yep, exactly right.

00;38;06;14 - 00;38;26;00
Hal Needham
MURPHY A lot of folks, when I wanted to do a podcast about adjusting, they're like, talk to Murphy. He's just he's a great guy. He's a positive guy. So you strike me as someone that just, you know, thinks the best about people. You're a very positive person. And so I'd imagine going out into these different adjustment claims that's you're you're taking that attitude with you out in the field.

00;38;26;08 - 00;38;56;06
Hal Needham
Unfortunately in insurance adjusting, sometimes we hear about fraud. Right. So I wanted to ask you, you know how we know that it happens in the industry. How can adjusters go out there, do a good professional job, think the best about the people involved. But if they're out there on the field, they're recording, you know, they're basically completing a claim, they're taking photos, they're taking videos of what happens when things don't quite add up, or maybe the damage that was supposedly there.

00;38;56;06 - 00;39;01;15
Hal Needham
It doesn't quite look like that. How can adjusters navigate this if potentially there is fraud involved?

00;39;02;02 - 00;39;17;01
Murphy Buggs
Yes, But I think always when you go out to the property, you do want to give the insured the benefit of the doubt. Right. You always want to assume that it is storm related. But as you stated in some scenarios, that's not the case. And you don't know there till you get on site. You know, you can't tell a lot of it just talking to them over the phone.

00;39;17;08 - 00;39;44;18
Murphy Buggs
But you can tell a lot of things whenever you get out to the property. For instance, you can see, you know, items that are what we call other than hail, you know, something that's not hail related or maybe not wind related damages. There are certain, you know, weather surveys and, you know, weather analytical reports that we can gather online that will give us, you know, the estimated wind speeds on any specific date, and that goes back a year or so.

00;39;45;07 - 00;40;07;21
Murphy Buggs
Hail size as well. There's a bunch of different sites that will give you that information. So it's almost like fact checking while you're out there. You know, if they are claiming, you know, entail on the specific date of loss, you can check your, you know, your weather historical reports and be able to see, okay, was there inch hail, you know, in this zip code or you know, even on this particular street level on this date.

00;40;08;11 - 00;40;36;09
Murphy Buggs
And it's very possible that maybe just the dates incorrect. You know, maybe they the reported date of loss is not accurate and they just need that changed. And a lot of times the carrier will work with them on that, you know, and get that date of loss change. But if it's really, you know, outlandish and there's not entail, you know, within a couple of months of that date of loss, you know, then you kind of have to go down the road of, okay, maybe this isn't related to this loss and it can be difficult, but it's a situation where I think you kind of always have to be honest and upfront with the insured and

00;40;36;09 - 00;40;55;21
Murphy Buggs
tell them exactly what you see. You know, I don't believe this is related to this storm. I'm still going to document everything. I'm still going to take photos. But at this time, unless we can get some more information or maybe even a, you know, an actual expert on hail and wind damages to come out at this time, I'm not going to be writing for any of this damage.

00;40;55;24 - 00;41;06;22
Hal Needham
So with the date, for example, maybe a homeowner submits a hail claim that happened on May 13th, but it actually was May 15th. So it could be like the event actually happened. They just had the wrong date, right?

00;41;06;26 - 00;41;29;12
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, and a lot of these policyholders, they have contractors come to their house, you know, roofers, and they say, hey, you've got hail damage and it happened on this date. Well, now you may just have reported the wrong date upfront. And sometimes that happens and carriers are, you know, again, benefit of the doubt they're going to work with the insured and say, okay, we'll adjust your date of loss so we can afford you coverage for these you know, for these damages.

00;41;29;12 - 00;41;49;20
Hal Needham
I've heard some, you know, experts, people that have been doing adjusting for a long time mentioned to not to jump to conclusions. You know, just do your best out there, document everything you can. But, you know, even if it is fraud, it may not be the homeowner that's behind it. We've heard of cases where roofers will go down the street, knock on doors and say, hey, you weren't here last week, but there was a huge hailstorm.

00;41;49;20 - 00;42;08;04
Hal Needham
Do you mind if I get up on your roof? You know, so perhaps a claim is filed and maybe the homeowner's a victim as well. So it's, you know, not maybe jumping to conclusions, but as the adjuster doing your best to document and and like you said, checking those meteorological fact check sources and just trying to piece together what we think best happened.

00;42;08;04 - 00;42;08;13
Hal Needham
Right?

00;42;08;25 - 00;42;27;20
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, even situations where it may be a third party that could have caused damages that the insured was unaware of, that can be sort of a lengthy process and a little bit sticky once you get into it. But sometimes the insurance company can sell brigade against that third party, you know, whether it's a contractor or representative or something along those lines.

00;42;28;08 - 00;42;46;21
Hal Needham
MURPHY One more question about some of these more complex cases here. So what happens when you have to inspect on a represented claim where the pay or attorney is claiming damage that is clearly not related to the loss? How should the field adjuster address that on site or, you know, with a third party representative like how to handle cases like that?

00;42;47;09 - 00;43;04;04
Murphy Buggs
Yeah. So a lot of times when a claim is filed and insured, you know, they have every right to hire a public adjuster or an attorney to represent them, you know, when they're filing their claim with the insurance company. And it's our job as the adjuster to meet with that third party representative onsite and inspected. At the same time.

00;43;04;28 - 00;43;36;02
Murphy Buggs
What can end up happening is if we don't inspect at the same time, then it becomes a he said. She said, you know, and it's just two people that really can't come to an agreed scope. But I find a lot of times that if we can meet with the representative on site, a lot of times though, those disputes can be overcome and we can, you know, point out damages and say, hey, you know, based on, you know, this data that I have, I don't believe that's either related to this date of loss or I don't believe maybe it's related to this specific type of loss, whether it be, you know, hail or wind or lightning

00;43;36;02 - 00;43;55;23
Murphy Buggs
or whatever the case may be. And again, I think it's all about being honest upfront when you're meeting with that representative. And I think a lot of times people come to an agreed scope when they're able to meet on site with each other, but it becomes really challenging when you're not able to meet with that representative on site, because then, like I said, it's just one person says this and another person says this.

00;43;56;18 - 00;44;07;15
Hal Needham
Murphy Please excuse my ignorance here, but a public adjuster. So is that someone appointed by the court system to say they're going to go to the site and try to resolve with maybe the field adjuster what's happened?

00;44;08;03 - 00;44;30;27
Murphy Buggs
No, absolutely not. So there's plenty of public adjusting firms throughout the country that insurance can call and get to represent them. And some insurers, I think, are maybe led in the wrong direction. They think that they have to have a public adjuster because it's a them versus the insurance company when in all reality, it's not. Insurance companies are there to pay out legitimate losses for damages that happened on those dates.

00;44;30;27 - 00;44;52;17
Murphy Buggs
So but I think sometimes policyholders think that they have to have somebody in their corner, maybe an expert on their side that will tell their story. So I think in the beginning it seems like it's it's a it's a us versus them type of deal when in all reality, public adjusters sometimes are aren't needed, but sometimes they are.

00;44;52;17 - 00;45;08;02
Murphy Buggs
And they do help our field adjusters, you know, see damages or interpret damages a different way. So I wouldn't say it's always a bad thing, although it can be challenging. I think sometimes it can be a good thing when you when they have somebody that represents them. But any policyholder can hire a public adjuster at any time. They choose.

00;45;08;02 - 00;45;22;01
Hal Needham
And it sounds like there is value in getting everyone out to the field. At the same time, they kind of help resolve this, right? Because you're looking at potential damage. It's like probably just being in the same place at the same time and looking at the evidence together probably helps move those along pretty well. Right?

00;45;22;18 - 00;45;38;10
Murphy Buggs
Exactly. Yeah. Because like I said, you know, photos can differ from one day to the next. You know, if both parties are at the site at the same time, they're going to have the same exact photos as the other party. Whereas, you know, like you mentioned, you know, in fraud cases, we could have photos from the first of the month.

00;45;38;10 - 00;45;45;15
Murphy Buggs
And by the 15th, there's a whole nother set of photos that come out that maybe don't necessarily jive with the initial set of photos that were taken.

00;45;45;15 - 00;45;51;22
Hal Needham
I see what you mean. If you're at the same place at the same time, you have the same lighting, the same conditions, it's going to match up obviously pretty well.

00;45;52;01 - 00;45;52;20
Murphy Buggs
Exactly.

00;45;52;28 - 00;46;03;23
Hal Needham
Murphy Awesome insights here. This is a little more complex stuff that I think a lot of our field adjusters that are getting a little more experience in the field will really enjoy your insights on this. So really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and perspectives here.

00;46;04;08 - 00;46;06;22
Murphy Buggs
Yeah, absolutely. I don't mind at all.

00;46;06;22 - 00;46;32;21
Hal Needham
MURPHY Thank you so much for taking time to come on the podcast and share your experience and perspectives with us. I got a few big take home points from this conversation with Murphy. Number one Insurance adjusting is an interesting career that enables people to make a good living while helping storm victims get back on their feet is a profession that requires considerable knowledge and training, and experts like Murphy are ready to train new adjusters at events sponsored by CMT Catastrophe and National Claims and their partners.

00;46;32;21 - 00;46;49;03
Hal Needham
So this is something you know, it is a profession. It takes a lot of training and expertise. But CMT is ready to help people learn this profession. And also keep in mind, too, when you work in this profession, you're actually coming alongside people in some of the darkest moments of their life, helping them get their feedback on the ground.

00;46;49;03 - 00;47;09;20
Hal Needham
So it's really a worthwhile profession that's doing a lot of good in the world. Number two, a big part of insurance adjusting is clear communication. That's something that I really got from this conversation with Murphy. Adjusters must communicate regularly with policyholders and their colleagues handling the claim. If you're a good communicator, adjusting may be a great professional choice for you.

00;47;10;01 - 00;47;31;05
Hal Needham
I also love what Murphy said about the importance for adjusters to be honest and upfront with whomever they're communicating with during the claim process. I think that's that's good professional training and an insight for anyone in whatever profession you're in. But I could see how it would be really important in something this where sometimes we have these complicated claims and we just need people to be honest and upfront and really know their stuff.

00;47;31;17 - 00;47;55;22
Hal Needham
And then finally, number three, it's important that adjusters clearly document what they're seeing in the field as thoroughly as possible. So experts encourage young adjusters to take as many photos as possible from different angles as you observe the property from the inside and out, you want to document as much as you can. These observations are helpful to process the claims or even to help complex claims issues such as contentious cases that go to court.

00;47;56;13 - 00;48;16;11
Hal Needham
Field adjusters are doing this important work that touches on the fields of field science, forensic engineering, and even a little bit of what we might think of as detective work. One of the companies and one of the organizations that we've launched Understand see is called Flood Information Systems. With that, we're actually doing data driven flood risk analysis around the country.

00;48;16;17 - 00;48;39;01
Hal Needham
And, you know, we can sometimes use work, great field work that adjusters have done on the field to help us understand how flooding works in an area. And the more you document, this actually can be used to help improve the science to better predict floods in the future. So you're not only doing a profession for yourself and making a living living, you're helping people get back on their feet after the storm and you're also helping advance the science.

00;48;39;01 - 00;49;02;05
Hal Needham
So really, really cool stuff here that we covered on the podcast. If you're interested to learn more about TNC catastrophe and national claims or maybe pursue a career with them, check out their website at adjusting expectations dot com that's adjusting expectations. Dot com. Well, thanks again to Murphy for taking time this week to come on the podcast. Really cool stuff and I'm excited to follow you professionally.

00;49;02;06 - 00;49;23;08
Hal Needham
See how your career continues to advance. I know you've done a world of good. You're really providing great leadership here and really helping train a lot of our new adjusters as well to do what they need to do in the field and at the desk. A big shout out as well to our CNN marketing team. As always, their center speaker, Jeremiah Long, Ashley Anderson, Christopher Cook, Amy Wilkins, and Courtney Booker.

00;49;23;15 - 00;49;39;05
Hal Needham
I'm Dr. Howard. Thanks for tuning in to the podcast and I'll catch you on the next episode, which will be episode number 62. Don't miss out. We're going to be covering some really interesting stuff next week.

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